60 second interview with Sarah McCoubrey

Do you do PLE?

Yes. The Ontario Justice Education Network (OJEN) is a non-profit organisation that promotes justice education, primarily with youth. I develop and deliver justice education programmes that promote an understanding of the people and processes involved, as well as developing trust in the various sources of assistance. This confidence in the justice system is critical to someone dealing with their own conflicts and deciding to trust a lawyer or other advocate with their problem.

What is your favourite example of PLE?

OJEN runs a program where youth living in public housing, who have frequent contact with the police, voluntarily spend eight weeks learning about the justice system and preparing to argue their own mock trial. They play the roles of witnesses, lawyers, court staff and jurors. Over the course of the program, we see that not only do they better understand the various steps, but they also meet lawyers who volunteer as coaches, and judges, police and probation officers who participate in the final mock trial in a real court house.

Speaking with these young people after completing the programme, I am always pleased to hear that not only did they learn about the system and the area of law, but more importantly, they surprised themselves by discovering that they were able to be an advocate for someone else, to explain the system to others, and to imagine careers in the justice system. They are developing knowledge of legal issues, but also trust and confidence in our system.

Why do you think PLE works?

Laws affect all areas of our lives, yet most people have very limited understanding about how to manage their own legal issues. PLE helps to show people that the law can be a tool for effectively managing conflict and for dealing proactively with minor conflicts before they become expensive and disruptive. Once empowered with more information and confidence, most people feel less intimidated and more comfortable, whether in court by themselves, in mediation, using government services, or working with their lawyer. Learning that law is not just what happens in court encourages people to deal with their day-to-day issues responsibility as well.

What is the biggest challenge your organisation faces doing PLE?

The law often deals with just one aspect of a complex problem at a time. It is difficult to explain the limits of legal remedies. While in the midst of an emotional and intimidating process, many people want to hear that things can be completely and easily fixed. It is frustrating to hear that not all aspects of a problem can be addressed by the courts. Many people confuse criminal and civil law and expect a court to impose criminal sanctions on an employer, neighbour or business associate who is responsible for the harm. Finding out that an expensive and time-consuming legal proceedings will only result in a small monetary award is disappointing, especially when most people see primarily criminal law on TV.

What is your top tip for doing good PLE work?

Have fun. This may sound obvious, or trite, but it has been key to invigorating PLE programmes and to creating programmes that make sense to people who are afraid of the justice system. Allowing participants to play different roles, meet professionals in an informal setting, and ask questions has allowed them to feel welcome in our civic institutions. Legal problems can be very serious, but the processes and people involved do not have to be scary and intimidating.

By having people get on their feet, act out different roles and think critically for themselves, we are more confident that they understand the information better than when they simply listen to a legal expert. The lawyers and judges who volunteer in our programs also appreciate the opportunity to have fun at the end of a long day in court.

You can find out more about Ontario Justice Education Network (OJEN) in Plenet's International PLE section.

January 2010